This really resonated with me: "This only makes things more confusing, because of course everyone starts out thinking surely someone knows the secret and they can just tell me and all this will be much easier! The secret is there is no secret and no one is withholding it from anyone. The secret is keep trying." It's so tempting to just follow a path and then be rewarded with the published book in the end, but it just doesn't work like that!
The other secret too is that most of the time people publish books and they are *not* best sellers and nobody wants advice on how to make peace with that whole effort/reward reality.
Two things I've learned from years of being approached:
1.) Sometimes it's worth it to shift the conversation to bigger-picture stuff—asking someone where they are on their publishing journey and/or what they really want to accomplish by publishing a book. In some cases, especially with children's books, some people just want something they can share with family and friends but think they have to pursue traditional publishing in order to do that, and they don't yet realize how much publishing is a business. If you can gauge their level of seriousness (and maybe help them figure it out for themselves too), that can be useful in redirecting them. If I have to take a moment to pass along any kind of advice or resource, I want to know I'm at least giving them something appropriate for where they're at.
2.) I give a hard no to anyone asking for advice on behalf of a friend. I know people are just trying to be helpful but it just never works out for anyone involved. And whenever I tell folks that their friends can reach out to me directly (so I can figure out where the hell they're at), they almost never do. I think that means either Friend of Aspiring Writer is barking up the wrong tree, or Aspiring Writer isn't motivated enough to hit me up. In other words, not worth anyone's time.
Some stranger emailed me asking me to tell him whether it's possible to make a career as an author. I am galled that he cold called in such an off base ballsy way and also I want to tell him to do his research and try hitting up SUCCESSFUL, RECENT authors of which I am neither. Anyway I just deleted.
this is also so crabby and grouchy of me but sometimes a little baby will ask for some career advice over the phone and I'm happy to but then they tell me to call them and I say "Here's my number :) "
I can't help thinking there's a gendered component to this. We women are generally socialised to prioritise managing other people's emotions rather than doing what's right for us. We attempt to intuit what the other person's response might be, particularly if we fear they will feel pain or humiliation, so that we can mitigate their negative emotional response in whatever way we can.
But other people's emotions are not our responsibility. And although I've not been in this exact situation, I have learnt that it's best to keep it simple and that there's no need to try to soften what you're about to say with compliments. Rather, I'd try something clear and non-judgemental along the lines of, "I'm sorry, but this isn't something I can help you with."
The temptation is always to explain ourselves, to justify why we are saying no. But as soon as we start trying to justify ourselves, we open the door to counterarguments. "I don't have time" is met with "But this won't take long". "I don't know the right people" is met with "But surely you know someone who knows someone!". An unambiguous "No" closes that door before they can shove a foot in.
Myself and some friends have our own personal rewards cards for the number of times we say "No" when we're asked to do things we don't want to do. If we get 10 "No"s ticked off, we get an ice cream. I highly recommend it as a way to nurture your ability and willingness to say "No"!
I've just been chatting about this to a friend of mine who's an academic and who's had a lot of requests this week for her to help out on projects over and above her usual workload. Taking inspiration from Kate, I suggested she develop some standard ways to say no that she feels comfortable with. She pointed out that we often feel not just the need to apologise for saying no, but also to facilitate the task if we can't do it. So we try to find someone else to do it, or we suggest other ways it can be done, when again, that isn't our problem.
The urge to be helpful runs deep, but it's not necessarily good for us to take on this extra labour. Sure, sometimes there are benefits either to us our our wider community from doing this. If I'm asked to speak at an event and can't do it, then I will always try to suggest other women who might, because women speakers at tech events are still rarer than they should be and I don't want my "No" to result in a woman not getting a speaking slot. And if there's a quid pro quo on the table, then yes, I'll have a go at helping out in some other way.
But a lot of the time, we're just making extra work for ourselves, and that work is frequently unrewarded and unappreciated. So, I think it's important that we interrogate these requests a little before deciding what our response should be.
Maybe I’m hard-hearted but couldn’t a person just honestly say, “That’s awesome you’re working on a book. I don’t have time to read it and give you feedback. Try connecting with a writers group!”
Katie, I'm a friendly and approachable wee Scottish person IRL, but this is what I do. That was after I got cornered in totally unsuitable situations by people being very presumptuous. A substitute teacher who barged through kids waiting to talk with me after I spoke at a school. A couple who turned up as I was preparing to speak in a public venue, and admitted they were only there to pick my brains. As an author friend said, even when you give them advice, they don't want to hear it. I did have friends read my mss, but they were professors of English and history who could be trusted to be both knowledgeable and critical, plus they offered. I understand why people ask, and I really don't mind when they're thoughtful about it, but when the approach is so entitled, I do take umbrage, and so should we all.
Good for you. I think reading an entire book and giving thoughtful feedback is an incredibly huge ask, akin to asking someone to watch your kids for the weekend. Seems best to have a relationship and a sense that the person is willing before asking something so big.
This is an important topic both for experienced writers and beginners. Like all of us who've been writing for a few decades, invariably here and there we will be approached and asked. Just as you suggest, I try to be kind and deflect.
Occasionally I do say yes - but then give the following preamble: "I will read it, but only once you tell me you've done your absolute best - no first drafts, please!" Then I read and I don't think I've ever been blown away. Here's the other thing, though - when I do read, I also preface that I will be honest, that I will not sugar-coat anything. I then do take the time to read, to analyze and to come back with detailed feedback. I know in advance that, most often, that feedback will fall on deaf ears, most beginners will put that manuscript aside and it'll die the slow death of dust - when it might have had a chance to breathe and really come to life.
Truth is, most people don't have the stamina and the discipline it takes to write and rewrite and rewrite for months and years on end. Wrote about that here a while back > https://danielmartineckhart.substack.com/p/so-you-want-to-be-a-screenwriter - Still, I do deliver that feedback - if nothing else, it'll have been a good exercise for myself.
This topic reminds me of Josh Olson's rant - he wrote the screenplay for the excellent "A History of Violence." The title of his published piece was "I Will Not Read your F#%!ing Script." His language is a bit harsh, but his points are quite valid, something for beginners to be mindful of when approaching professional writers. I wrote about that here (the link to Olson's rant is there as well) > https://danielmartineckhart.substack.com/p/suck-it-up-and-keep-writing
Ooooh, I have such a fun story about this that I cannot share in a permanent public place. But yeah, some people are WILD when they want you to write / represent your book.
I had a big-deal agent tease and tempt me a few months back, and ultimately he declined to represent me/my book. After reading the kiss-off email, I sadly went to Spotify and cued up my therapist, Heather Maloney. By the time the song ended I had my head back on straight, and resumed my quest down the windy roads. There’s no alternative, is there.
This is so incredibly helpful. Thank you for taking the time to put this list together (I wish I had these scripts with me always!) We all owe you one for this.
...so, I’ve written this great trilogy I’d love you all to check out. It’s the fastest 1,547 pages you’ll ever read! Kidding.
I found the advice in this post helpful and also sad. Writing is a hard and solitary pursuit in which we pour our hearts into this vessel in hopes that someone will want to hold it and lovingly savor its contents. Most of us write to make a genuine connection and to feel less alone. When someone, especially an "amateur" takes the vulnerable step to ask for our attention it’s easy to forget that. The violent indifference of the world to most thoughtful art makes even the kindest of us callused over time.
The truth is that we're all hungry for attention and it's so damned hard to give properly even to the ones dearest to us. My creative life has survived on the smallest morsels of kind attention I've received when I needed it most so I try not to forget that.
I loved this piece and completely agree. I think for anyone outside the publishing world it can be a bit intimidating to navigate. As some rules are unwritten (although thank you for clarifying!) or they just don't know where to start (Hello, my name is Lori, and I'm a writer...it's been 5 days since my last coherent sentence). But, it might be great to know where to begin.
At annual family gatherings, I’m more likely to have the conversation:
Niece: “What are you doing these days?”
Me: “Writing books.”
Niece: “So you’re not working then.”
I'll occasionally offer suggestions for the first five pages of a work, or a picture book, for someone I know has worked hard on their craft. I'll always try to be helpful in some way, but for others, I may tell them that even though I've had books published, I’m unreliable when giving advice on a text, and they’ll probably be better served by someone else. I ask if they've joined groups such as SCBWI, and benefitted from their meetings, which blogs and podcasts they find useful to learn industry expectations, and list my favourites and the professional freelance editors I've used and recommend.
If it's not something I can or want to help with (for any of many possible reasons), in the future I might tell someone I never get my own work in perfect shape. For my last book (non-fiction how-to), I exchanged over 300 emails with the publisher's editor, and as a result, it’s a far better book than I would have produced on my own. At conferences and events, I pay for editors from publishing houses to appraise sections of manuscripts and discuss them with me, one to one. I always gain useful insights for changes...and get known, hopefully appearing to be someone easy to work with. All I ask is an honest advantage. And I have more than a hundred files on my computer with my latest story’s title, because I keep making changes, and will need advice, too, prior to it being submitted to a publisher.
Hey Kate, I would love to interview you for my podcast, Get Your Book Seen and Sold - its a substack. Would you be interested? If so, shoot me an email - wjcwolk@gmail.com. Thanks!
Just like life, we think there ought to be someone who fully knows what’s going on and what we should do to find the clear path to our dream future, rather than this hacking through swamps & forests bs.
This really resonated with me: "This only makes things more confusing, because of course everyone starts out thinking surely someone knows the secret and they can just tell me and all this will be much easier! The secret is there is no secret and no one is withholding it from anyone. The secret is keep trying." It's so tempting to just follow a path and then be rewarded with the published book in the end, but it just doesn't work like that!
The other secret too is that most of the time people publish books and they are *not* best sellers and nobody wants advice on how to make peace with that whole effort/reward reality.
YES!
The secret is: keep trying. yes!
Two things I've learned from years of being approached:
1.) Sometimes it's worth it to shift the conversation to bigger-picture stuff—asking someone where they are on their publishing journey and/or what they really want to accomplish by publishing a book. In some cases, especially with children's books, some people just want something they can share with family and friends but think they have to pursue traditional publishing in order to do that, and they don't yet realize how much publishing is a business. If you can gauge their level of seriousness (and maybe help them figure it out for themselves too), that can be useful in redirecting them. If I have to take a moment to pass along any kind of advice or resource, I want to know I'm at least giving them something appropriate for where they're at.
2.) I give a hard no to anyone asking for advice on behalf of a friend. I know people are just trying to be helpful but it just never works out for anyone involved. And whenever I tell folks that their friends can reach out to me directly (so I can figure out where the hell they're at), they almost never do. I think that means either Friend of Aspiring Writer is barking up the wrong tree, or Aspiring Writer isn't motivated enough to hit me up. In other words, not worth anyone's time.
FANTASTIC ADVICE!!!!
Some stranger emailed me asking me to tell him whether it's possible to make a career as an author. I am galled that he cold called in such an off base ballsy way and also I want to tell him to do his research and try hitting up SUCCESSFUL, RECENT authors of which I am neither. Anyway I just deleted.
SAME! I also respond to anyone who wants to "pick my brain" that my consulting fee is $200/hr
this is also so crabby and grouchy of me but sometimes a little baby will ask for some career advice over the phone and I'm happy to but then they tell me to call them and I say "Here's my number :) "
YES. Make them put on their big-kid pants and take the initiative!
I can't help thinking there's a gendered component to this. We women are generally socialised to prioritise managing other people's emotions rather than doing what's right for us. We attempt to intuit what the other person's response might be, particularly if we fear they will feel pain or humiliation, so that we can mitigate their negative emotional response in whatever way we can.
But other people's emotions are not our responsibility. And although I've not been in this exact situation, I have learnt that it's best to keep it simple and that there's no need to try to soften what you're about to say with compliments. Rather, I'd try something clear and non-judgemental along the lines of, "I'm sorry, but this isn't something I can help you with."
The temptation is always to explain ourselves, to justify why we are saying no. But as soon as we start trying to justify ourselves, we open the door to counterarguments. "I don't have time" is met with "But this won't take long". "I don't know the right people" is met with "But surely you know someone who knows someone!". An unambiguous "No" closes that door before they can shove a foot in.
Myself and some friends have our own personal rewards cards for the number of times we say "No" when we're asked to do things we don't want to do. If we get 10 "No"s ticked off, we get an ice cream. I highly recommend it as a way to nurture your ability and willingness to say "No"!
I've just been chatting about this to a friend of mine who's an academic and who's had a lot of requests this week for her to help out on projects over and above her usual workload. Taking inspiration from Kate, I suggested she develop some standard ways to say no that she feels comfortable with. She pointed out that we often feel not just the need to apologise for saying no, but also to facilitate the task if we can't do it. So we try to find someone else to do it, or we suggest other ways it can be done, when again, that isn't our problem.
The urge to be helpful runs deep, but it's not necessarily good for us to take on this extra labour. Sure, sometimes there are benefits either to us our our wider community from doing this. If I'm asked to speak at an event and can't do it, then I will always try to suggest other women who might, because women speakers at tech events are still rarer than they should be and I don't want my "No" to result in a woman not getting a speaking slot. And if there's a quid pro quo on the table, then yes, I'll have a go at helping out in some other way.
But a lot of the time, we're just making extra work for ourselves, and that work is frequently unrewarded and unappreciated. So, I think it's important that we interrogate these requests a little before deciding what our response should be.
Maybe I’m hard-hearted but couldn’t a person just honestly say, “That’s awesome you’re working on a book. I don’t have time to read it and give you feedback. Try connecting with a writers group!”
Yep! This is also an option!
Katie, I'm a friendly and approachable wee Scottish person IRL, but this is what I do. That was after I got cornered in totally unsuitable situations by people being very presumptuous. A substitute teacher who barged through kids waiting to talk with me after I spoke at a school. A couple who turned up as I was preparing to speak in a public venue, and admitted they were only there to pick my brains. As an author friend said, even when you give them advice, they don't want to hear it. I did have friends read my mss, but they were professors of English and history who could be trusted to be both knowledgeable and critical, plus they offered. I understand why people ask, and I really don't mind when they're thoughtful about it, but when the approach is so entitled, I do take umbrage, and so should we all.
Good for you. I think reading an entire book and giving thoughtful feedback is an incredibly huge ask, akin to asking someone to watch your kids for the weekend. Seems best to have a relationship and a sense that the person is willing before asking something so big.
Saving this one for some yet unseen terrible party interaction in my future.
This is an important topic both for experienced writers and beginners. Like all of us who've been writing for a few decades, invariably here and there we will be approached and asked. Just as you suggest, I try to be kind and deflect.
Occasionally I do say yes - but then give the following preamble: "I will read it, but only once you tell me you've done your absolute best - no first drafts, please!" Then I read and I don't think I've ever been blown away. Here's the other thing, though - when I do read, I also preface that I will be honest, that I will not sugar-coat anything. I then do take the time to read, to analyze and to come back with detailed feedback. I know in advance that, most often, that feedback will fall on deaf ears, most beginners will put that manuscript aside and it'll die the slow death of dust - when it might have had a chance to breathe and really come to life.
Truth is, most people don't have the stamina and the discipline it takes to write and rewrite and rewrite for months and years on end. Wrote about that here a while back > https://danielmartineckhart.substack.com/p/so-you-want-to-be-a-screenwriter - Still, I do deliver that feedback - if nothing else, it'll have been a good exercise for myself.
This topic reminds me of Josh Olson's rant - he wrote the screenplay for the excellent "A History of Violence." The title of his published piece was "I Will Not Read your F#%!ing Script." His language is a bit harsh, but his points are quite valid, something for beginners to be mindful of when approaching professional writers. I wrote about that here (the link to Olson's rant is there as well) > https://danielmartineckhart.substack.com/p/suck-it-up-and-keep-writing
Ooooh, I have such a fun story about this that I cannot share in a permanent public place. But yeah, some people are WILD when they want you to write / represent your book.
Do you know the Heather Maloney song “No Shortcuts”? Your column made me think of it. Here’s the chorus, and it is oh-so-true:
"Baby there aint no shortcuts on your way.
Baby there aint no highways in these parts.
You know baby gonna have to drive yourself down every little windy road,
If you really wanna get to where you're goin."
I LOVE this!!!
I had a big-deal agent tease and tempt me a few months back, and ultimately he declined to represent me/my book. After reading the kiss-off email, I sadly went to Spotify and cued up my therapist, Heather Maloney. By the time the song ended I had my head back on straight, and resumed my quest down the windy roads. There’s no alternative, is there.
This is so incredibly helpful. Thank you for taking the time to put this list together (I wish I had these scripts with me always!) We all owe you one for this.
...so, I’ve written this great trilogy I’d love you all to check out. It’s the fastest 1,547 pages you’ll ever read! Kidding.
I found the advice in this post helpful and also sad. Writing is a hard and solitary pursuit in which we pour our hearts into this vessel in hopes that someone will want to hold it and lovingly savor its contents. Most of us write to make a genuine connection and to feel less alone. When someone, especially an "amateur" takes the vulnerable step to ask for our attention it’s easy to forget that. The violent indifference of the world to most thoughtful art makes even the kindest of us callused over time.
The truth is that we're all hungry for attention and it's so damned hard to give properly even to the ones dearest to us. My creative life has survived on the smallest morsels of kind attention I've received when I needed it most so I try not to forget that.
I loved this piece and completely agree. I think for anyone outside the publishing world it can be a bit intimidating to navigate. As some rules are unwritten (although thank you for clarifying!) or they just don't know where to start (Hello, my name is Lori, and I'm a writer...it's been 5 days since my last coherent sentence). But, it might be great to know where to begin.
At annual family gatherings, I’m more likely to have the conversation:
Niece: “What are you doing these days?”
Me: “Writing books.”
Niece: “So you’re not working then.”
I'll occasionally offer suggestions for the first five pages of a work, or a picture book, for someone I know has worked hard on their craft. I'll always try to be helpful in some way, but for others, I may tell them that even though I've had books published, I’m unreliable when giving advice on a text, and they’ll probably be better served by someone else. I ask if they've joined groups such as SCBWI, and benefitted from their meetings, which blogs and podcasts they find useful to learn industry expectations, and list my favourites and the professional freelance editors I've used and recommend.
If it's not something I can or want to help with (for any of many possible reasons), in the future I might tell someone I never get my own work in perfect shape. For my last book (non-fiction how-to), I exchanged over 300 emails with the publisher's editor, and as a result, it’s a far better book than I would have produced on my own. At conferences and events, I pay for editors from publishing houses to appraise sections of manuscripts and discuss them with me, one to one. I always gain useful insights for changes...and get known, hopefully appearing to be someone easy to work with. All I ask is an honest advantage. And I have more than a hundred files on my computer with my latest story’s title, because I keep making changes, and will need advice, too, prior to it being submitted to a publisher.
Hey Kate, I would love to interview you for my podcast, Get Your Book Seen and Sold - its a substack. Would you be interested? If so, shoot me an email - wjcwolk@gmail.com. Thanks!
Just like life, we think there ought to be someone who fully knows what’s going on and what we should do to find the clear path to our dream future, rather than this hacking through swamps & forests bs.
Thought of this stack: https://michaelmohr.substack.com/p/literary-agent-rejections